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TriOctium

Swarm Mystery [NIGHT PHASE 4]

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Together with Wstie's point, I'd just like to point out that anyone of us may become an Assimilated anytime, in which case we seem to be digging our own graves if we do this. The moment we become Assimilated, we're probably going to be discovered. Ether, you may become an Assimilated, who knows, and then your own plan will backfire on you.

 

It looks like we may want to be concerned for our safety no matter which side we're on.

That's only if you're targeted for group scanning after you've been assimilated. I daresay that there are many ways to avoid that scenario. And even if you are scanned, you can lie about why your characteristics have changed (which is why this game conveniently tells us that some people can alter their own traits), and who can contradict you? In the end, it'll all boil down to a leap of faith on everybody's part.

 

But what it does tell us is what the Host's Characteristics are (based on who he decides to Assimilate rather Murder). Remember, if the Host goes down, everyone wins, Assimilateds included.

 

How many of us will become Assimilated in this game? Less than half, or the game is lost. That means that information-sharing is going to benefit rather than harm most of you.

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But if you put it this way... everyone can lie, so what's the point with sharing our Characteristics?

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The game rules say that some players can modify their Characteristics, not Traits. Maybe I should have used an easier term like "stats" and "abilities".

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The game rules say that some players can modify their Characteristics, not Traits. Maybe I should have used an easier term like "stats" and "abilities".

Argh, typo. My point was about Characteristics, not Traits. And yes, Stats and Abilities would have been easier to keep apart. *adjusts specs with a blush*

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*Walks in with her big work boots and work gloves on, holding a flamethrower* Sorry I missed so much, guys. Seems I had a broken down heater I had to fix up so you all wouldn't freeze in here. (I had to sleep o.o)

 

It's nice to see I'm popular already, though ;) *dances* But, alas, I can only accept the invitation to converse with one other person o.o The Robot and the Medic. Both of you seem very useful and I am pretty enthusiastic but, so early in the game, I think I'll have to go with first come first serve. That, and she's looking for a Cure. Or better be >.>

 

Just teasing, I'm sure you are :p

 

Anyway, I confirm that I want to converse with HH, a.k.a. the Medic.

 

And, to participate in the current discussion, I agree with HH. Anyone could lie about their characteristics. So, having us all tell them would only put us in unease rather than make us more aware. One, because we're all wondering if what we're hearing is true and two, because everyone knows our characteristics and, if we get Assimilated, we're more likely to be found out. Don't assume you'll be playing the entire game as a Scientist. One moment, someone can be an ally while the next moment, they may be waiting to kill you.

Edited by Darkwater

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So I am going to be lazy and not read all of that. I would like to know whether we will be revealing the traits we discover or keep them to ourselves.

Also I'll converse with Wstfgl.

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I see two lines of counter-argument. 

 

First, anybody can lie about their Characteristics, so there's no point sharing your Characteristics.

But if you put it this way... everyone can lie, so what's the point with sharing our Characteristics?

And, to participate in the current discussion, I agree with HH. Anyone could lie about their characteristics. So, having us all tell them would only put us in unease rather than make us more aware. One, because we're all wondering if what we're hearing is true.

I don't know about you guys, but it's better to play with information on the board than be in the dark. Information allows both sides (Host and Scientists) to start speculating and second-guessing each other's actions, leading to a more engaging game. You do realize that without information, the Host is little more than a RNG that selects who to kill or Assimilate each night, and the Scientists are, well, collecting information about Characteristics with no means to put it together and analyze (really, even if you scan a person a day, it'll take 11 turns to scan everyone and your information is useless because you have no basis for comparison).

 

Going by Wstie's reasoning, the Host is almost always going to Assimilate Scientists rather than kill them cuz having minions is better for the Host. Therefore, you have no reason to lie about your characteristics UNLESS… you cannot be assimilated like DayDreamer the Robot (which is an assumption, I might point out) OR

 

Second, you might be an Assimilated at some point and revealing your Characteristics now will make it easier for the group to identify and exterminate you later (and you want to play as long as possible).

Hello, we have a Assimilated counter, remember? The Scientists don't necessarily have to start exterminating Assimilateds until it looks like the Scientists are going to lose due to numbers. 

 

Furthermore, before we can talk about exterminating the Assimilated you, we'll have to find out that you're the one who's been Assimilated due to your changed characteristics via the group scan. Which is a difficult task by itself. All I can say is, if you're so conspicuous that the group decided to scan you, you're probably just doomed anyway.

 

Point being, the group scan is so inefficient that it's unlikely to be the thing that kicks you out of the shuttle (and game) due to you revealing your traits.

 

Also, we're voting on revealing Characteristics, not Traits. I recommend that we color-code those two categories going forth.

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See, it all sounds perfect, but it's really not. Again, lying is a factor. Even if everyone agrees and gives characteristics, there is no way to know for sure they're telling the truth and we may be 'finding out' false information, which would be believed as true and run us all astray. Scanning would then still need to be used to assure the truth is being told so then telling in the first place becomes useless.

 

And you're asking Assimilated people to trust the opposing team(us) not to kill them but, in all reality, there will be killing because the Assimilated/Host team will be killing us. And it's not safe to think we wouldn't counterattack.

 

There will already be speculation and guessing and such but without putting people in so much of a risk. I mean, I'm totally up for killing the Host and finding a cure and stuff so everyone wins, but that doesn't mean it's anywhere near guarentee-able. And neither is reassuring an Assimilated that they won't die unless they absolutely must.

 

Besides, if we only start killing the Assimilated/Host side after they start beating us in numbers, aren't we kinda screwing ourselves? We'd have waited too long and may not be able to have a chance to turn around again.

 

In my opinion. I'm just not for it.

Edited by Darkwater

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Anyway, I confirm that I want to converse with HH, a.k.a. the Medic.

 

It is pointless for me to converse with any of these other meatbags. Only the Engineer is capable of conversing properly with me. As such, I insist you reconsider. She can find another person. I cannot find another Engineer. My maintenance cannot wait.

 

If you will not change your mind, then I must instead insist that the Medic retract her choice and converse with somebody else.

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Hm. I seem pretty necessary to you. But I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Do you have to converse with me this round? I really am curious o.o

 

But I should also allow HH a fighting chance to win me, as well.

 

So, until I can be convinced on which to choose, I retract my acceptance of HH and currently choose to converse with no one.

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She's playing hard-to-get. I think she didn't get the memo that I am the Love Interest, I'm the Tsundere here >: (

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See, it all sounds perfect, but it's really not. Again, lying is a factor. Even if everyone agrees and gives characteristics, there is no way to know for sure they're telling the truth and we may be 'finding out' false information, which would be believed as true and run us all astray. 

The mere fact that you mentioned the possibility of lying proves that we all know better than to take everything that is said for truth. And I'm not making a case for the opposite. By all means, lie if you think that it benefits you (although I am saying that it doesn't in fact benefit you).

 

All I'm saying is put information on the table for us to work with. Knowledge about everyone's characteristics will help us compare Group Scan results. It will also make Murder a riskier option for the Host because we can gleam information about him/her from the Characteristics of his/her victims.

 

 

Scanning would then still need to be used to assure the truth is being told so then telling in the first place becomes useless.

I'm not saying that everyone revealing their Characteristics means we won't have to do Group Scans. I'm saying that Groups Scans are useless for the Scientists without first having a referent to compare scan results to. If Day 4 is the first time you're scanning me, how do you know that my characteristics haven't been altered by Assimilation? On the other hand, if you scan me on Day 4 and my Intelligence is higher than what I had reported on Day 1, then you may begin to wonder whether if I've been Assimilated.

 

And you're asking Assimilated people to trust the opposing team(us) not to kill them but, in all reality, there will be killing because the Assimilated/Host team will be killing us. 

Strange, people can't seem to make up their mind whether or not there'll be killing. Why do you think the Host will Murder rather than Assimilate you? Murder requires the Host to know your defensive Characteristics, whereas Assimilate doesn't. The Host is almost always going to Assimilate you; it doesn't reveal information about his/her own Characteristics and it swings the numbers in the Swarm's favor by 2.

 

 

And it's not safe to think we wouldn't counterattack.

Doesn't negate my second point that even if the group decides to play aggressive and eliminate every single Assimilated they find, they'll have to suspect you enough to target you for a group scan first. You can certainly avoid that scenario.

 

Besides, if we only start killing the Assimilated/Host side after they start beating us in numbers, aren't we kinda screwing ourselves? We'd have waited too long and may not be able to have a chance to turn around again.

Which is why I say, reveal Characteristics honestly and early so that we maximize our chances to weed out Assimilateds later on. The longer we wait, the more Assimilateds there are, the more reasons we have to doubt the veracity of any information that is shared. Don't wait too long and lose the advantage you have by sharing information early.

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We are clearly going to need to agree to disagree on this.

 

If I tell you my characteristics today(assuming everyone agrees to this and is honest about it, which not everyone will be) and then become Assimilated and you see my numbers changed because I already helped you know my characteristics without making you work to see them, then I'm caught and that won't end well for me. Whether it's from suspicion or simple curiosity, I'd be figured out. Rather than everyone working to learn this information for themselves.

 

I disagree with everyone telling information about themselves, for everyone to see, including the Host and Assimilated. Again, because at any moment someone can switch teams. And, if there's a way for Assimilated people to use information we give them freely against us, I'm sure they'd find it and use it. So this wouldn't be just giving information to your teammates to help them kill you later on, it'd also be for the Host and all later Assimilateds to see.

 

And I don't think I'll be changing my mind on this, either. But you have other people who you need to convince than just me. So, maybe they'll join you. Or maybe they'll be cautious. Who knows. I reject it.

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Team coordination never works, it seems. In any case, I vote for myself to scanned. *takes off his shirt*

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So I wonder why no one suggested we all level our knowledge to 3 and then assign a target for Investigation to all of us

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So I wonder why no one suggested we all level our knowledge to 3 and then assign a target for Investigation to all of us

They did. See? ^

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(as mentioned I didnt read anything prior to me entering the thread, SO MY BAD)

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I.... I quoted you, Seanzy o.o

 

Anyway, I thought the new level was turned to 5?

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UGH SCREW YOU YOU CONFUSED ME B-BAKA

 

Also no:

â—      Investigate another player. This action is locked at the beginning, and will only be unlocked upon reaching level 2 Knowledge or higher. Investigating someone will reveal all his Characteristics to you, as well as if they are Assimilated. At level 3 Knowledge, it will also inform you of whether the target is the Swarm HostInvestigating a player leaves you vulnerable to being Assimilated or Murdered.

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Love you, too ^^

 

And, yeah, but he made an edit that it was rising to 5 because we got more players. Leme go find it and I'll post in this.

 

Level 1: Player gains the ability to detect the ASSIMILATED trait upon Conversing with another player whom he has already determined all previous Traits..

·         Level 2: Player gains the ability to Investigate other players during the night. They will be able to identify Assimilated, but not the Swarm Host.

·         Level 3: Player gains the ability to identify Assimilated among the players they Investigate at night.

·         Level 4: Player gains the ability to detect the ASSIMILATED trait immediately upon Conversing with another player, regardless of how many Traits he has determined beforehand.

·         Level 5: Player gains the ability to identify the Swarm Host if they Investigate the right player.

Edited by Darkwater

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I assumed everyone knew that was the most optimal move. *nudges specs haughtily*

 

However, in the previous Mystery game when I assigned everyone a room to Investigate, many didn't do as asked, so...

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Welp, that means there is conflicting information. 'Cause the tab about Scientists says this:

During the night (48 hours), you have different actions you may perform. However, you may only perform 1 action per night phase. Scientist actions will be performed BEFORE Swarm actions. Night actions should be PMed to the GM.

â— Scan the corpse of the alien specimen. This will increase your personal Knowledge of the aliens by 1 point. Scanning the alien specimen leaves you vulnerable to being Assimilated or Murdered.
◠Research on the ship’s database. This will present you with one Characteristic from three random players. Researching on the ship’s database leaves you vulnerable to being Assimilated or Murdered.
â— Message another player. This message may be as long or short as you wish, but only 1 message can be sent per Night Phase. The intended recipient will receive the message, regardless of his/her role. This message will be sent out by the GM at the end of the Night Phase. Messaging another player DOES NOT leave you vulnerable to being Assimilated or Murdered as you do not leave your room. However, it does consume your night action.
â— Investigate another player. This action is locked at the beginning, and will only be unlocked upon reaching level 2 Knowledge or higher. Investigating someone will reveal all his Characteristics to you, as well as if they are Assimilated. At level 3 Knowledge, it will also inform you of whether the target is the Swarm Host. Investigating a player leaves you vulnerable to being Assimilated or Murdered.



While the Knowledge Tab says:

Knowledge is measured by several discrete levels which players may obtain via Scanning the deceased alien carcass. It is useless to the Swarm Host, but vitally useful to the Scientists, and potentially useful to certain Assimilated players. The various levels of Knowledge will reveal different pieces of information to Scientists:

· Level 1: Player gains the ability to detect the ASSIMILATED trait upon Conversing with another player whom he has already determined all previous Traits..
· Level 2: Player gains the ability to Investigate other players during the night. They will be able to identify Assimilated, but not the Swarm Host.
· Level 3: Player gains the ability to identify Assimilated among the players they Investigate at night.
· Level 4: Player gains the ability to detect the ASSIMILATED trait immediately upon Conversing with another player, regardless of how many Traits he has determined beforehand.
· Level 5: Player gains the ability to identify the Swarm Host if they Investigate the right player.

 

EDIT: Also assuming anything is silly. This has to be coordinated or it's basically a free-for-all, which is dumb.

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