Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Seanzilla

[YOU LOSE!] HYPER STREET FIGHTER 7 MAFIA EDITION

579 posts in this topic

I find it strange that you say this since you were one of the players who played the early versions of the Mafia games on this site when there were even less ways to prove someone's evil/innocent cuz there were fewer abilities then.

 

 

I'm not talking about being able to tell whether people are innocent or not. I mean knowing what the game entails - having a complete picture of what is actually possible.

 

In the original games we knew there were only 2 teams. We knew that there'd be an investigator and protector. As such, we had a picture of what people's motives may be and what their actions were aimed at. If someone wanted to lie, it relied on their words being convincing. Now, it relies more on whether you believe the game creator would arrange things a certain way. I mean, if anyone but Sean had made this game, Octy couldn't have claimed the Dan role was useless and given to him because Sean is mean. That only worked because we all apparently believe Sean is really that mean. We evidently underestimated how tsuntsun he really is.

 

But yeah, with unknown game mechanics, it becomes more about what you think the game creator put in than whether you believe the words players are saying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dammit, I really should have killed you on the first night.

I shouldn't play Russian Roulette next time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ice's game is not ready yet, so Eth would you like to go ahead first? If your game isn't ready either I have a plan for a new game surrounding the theme of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms which will be trying out a whole bunch of new concepts (yet again).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not talking about being able to tell whether people are innocent or not. I mean knowing what the game entails - having a complete picture of what is actually possible.

 

In the original games we knew there were only 2 teams. We knew that there'd be an investigator and protector. As such, we had a picture of what people's motives may be and what their actions were aimed at. If someone wanted to lie, it relied on their words being convincing. Now, it relies more on whether you believe the game creator would arrange things a certain way. I mean, if anyone but Sean had made this game, Octy couldn't have claimed the Dan role was useless and given to him because Sean is mean. That only worked because we all apparently believe Sean is really that mean. We evidently underestimated how tsuntsun he really is.

 

But yeah, with unknown game mechanics, it becomes more about what you think the game creator put in than whether you believe the words players are saying.

I wouldn't say it's -more- about what you think the game creator put in than whether you believe what someone's saying. I think that the former's what you use to justify your feelings about the latter. Me accusing you in the Swarm Mystery, Kyo accusing me, me and you targeting Wstie (and what did Wstie do abilities-wise until that point that called him out? All he did was talk) and several fingers pointing at Octy. The theories about the game are wrong most of the time, but the feelings tend to be spot-on. You never needed a complete a picture of the abilities available to play out the basic premise of Mafia - catch the villains; the abilities just created the impression that you did because we all want facts that we can lean on.

 

Trying to guess at the game creator's intent is certainly one of the many thought processes you could do to arrive at conclusions. But, as it should be evident by now, it's clearly not an easy thing to do. But neither is it the only angle to attack either. If it's proven ineffective, just focus on the behavior of players in their posts.

 

EDIT: Octy, I'm not ready yet. So I guess you should go ahead.

EDIT EDIT: Oh, but I do think that we should use less of the Assimilate-every-night feature. It's nearly impossible for the good guys to come back from it after a certain point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the way, if you guys saw my abilities, you'll know i was right when i said they were pretty useless. XD but i'm proud to wield them!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You never needed a complete a picture of the abilities available to play out the basic premise of Mafia - catch the villains; the abilities just created the impression that you did because we all want facts that we can lean on.

Actually, even that basic premise can't be taken for granted, when there's alternate win conditions and the good guys can become villains. The mafia premise rests on knowing for a fact that the mafia members can kill players each night phase, and that you can vote people to die during the day. Even those basic premises aren't guaranteed anymore. The villains lost their ability to kill early, there were innocents who could kill players during the night phase, and you yourself could not be voted to die during the day unless we had 6 people in agreement.

 

I'm not saying we NEED to know. Clearly, the game functions anyway. And some people like it this way. I'm just saying I for one don't, as I like to know the rules of the game I'm playing.

 

 

Also, for the record, I didn't suspect Wst at all really. I investigated him because you and others seemed to suspect him, so I knew that you'd likely try to vote him off eventually, so I figured I'd check him first so we could either press on with that immediately or avert a mistake later. It was an action meant to make the most of my investigation rather than using it randomly.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In Night Phase 3 I assimilated Alisyn. And we all know what happened after that. Alisyn, I'm sorry to say this, but your reveal and suicide did not help me at all. You said that your skills were useless to me; in fact, they could have been very useful. I needed all the kill skills that I could get, and I did not need my minions sacrificing themselves for me. What I did need was you to have killed Cammy (which was the only possible target of your skill) and contributed to my building bunch of minions. In the future if you do play a Mafia game where you are assimilated, I'd suggest that you wait for the Swarm Host or whoever to pass you some coded information through the thread before taking any drastic action like revealing yourself. (To be honest Sanzi got so pissed he asked me whether I wanted him to kick you out of the game, but I told him not to.)

To be fair, none of us knew exactly what your win-con was. I myself was blocking kill votes cuz I thought that it might be like the Sith version where you lost if the ones you were supposed to convert were killed or something. And you had no way of communicating to us your intent. I think Seanzi planned for it to be that way.

 

But yes, the art of revealing yourself is an art. Heheh.

 

In any case, we should cut Alisyn some slack now that it's over. It's her first Mafia game and it's not like these games come with a detailed rulebook. And she did participate pretty actively!

 

 

Actually, even that basic premise can't be taken for granted, when there's alternate win conditions and the good guys can become villains. The mafia premise rests on knowing for a fact that the mafia members can kill players each night phase, and that you can vote people to die during the day. Even those basic premises aren't guaranteed anymore. The villains lost their ability to kill early, there were innocents who could kill players during the night phase, and you yourself could not be voted to die during the day unless we had 6 people in agreement.

 

I'm not saying we NEED to know. Clearly, the game functions anyway. And some people like it this way. I'm just saying I for one don't, as I like to know the rules of the game I'm playing.

Well, okay. That's legit. So next time the creator should put all abilities up front before the game?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay. I'll post my game thread in a couple of days or so. Taking the feedback from this game into account, I'm going to try out some new concepts such as making all skills public from the very beginning, as well as introducing the idea of health bars. There will also be no Assimilation involved. Hopefully you guys will enjoy this game design!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, okay. That's legit. So next time the creator should put all abilities up front before the game?

 

Well that's just my preference. Not sure though, not ALL abilities necessarily need to be revealed, just major things. I can't say it's the best or only way it should be done, it's just my feedback. In the end, it's up to the game creators to decide how they want their game to be.

 

 

Also speaking of other players, I must apologize to Pain (green for heals?) for getting her killed, since she indeed wasn't lying. :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, to make us feel better, she wasn't saying much, lying or not. =P

Also, about game designs, i think there never will be a model to satisfy everyone. Octy came up with Assimilations cuz people were complaining of dying too early.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I'm going to try out some new concepts such as making all skills public from the very beginning, as well as introducing the idea of health bars

Oh, snap. Now my Loyalty Counters idea isn't novel anymore. >.>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay. I'll post my game thread in a couple of days or so. Taking the feedback from this game into account, I'm going to try out some new concepts such as making all skills public from the very beginning, as well as introducing the idea of health bars. There will also be no Assimilation involved. Hopefully you guys will enjoy this game design!

You're just gonna run a game of San Guo Sha, aren't you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, snap. Now my Loyalty Counters idea isn't novel anymore. >.>

 

No, you got it all wrong.

 

He means this.

 

Planters+NUT-rition+Digestive+Health+Bar

 

Is the mafia game taking its toll? Do you want to boost your abilities? Grab a health bar!

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The villains didn't lose their ability to kill.

When Wstie died both Zangief and Juni got activated, 'cause Wst had visited Zangief on the night he died Zangief had full use of his moves, but Juni could only use her Ultra. They were still allowedmto kill people, but they targeted Time, who was immune to being killed at Night, and then DD, who was being protected by Nikkia. They could still kill, but two failed attempts made it seem like they could not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nope, but Bison's actual Super was the ability to recruit through Killing, not the Killing itself.

The rest of his Super contained a lot of information on Shadaloo, and just like I would've edited Ryu's Super, Sakura's Evil Ultra and even presented Ken only half of his Ultra, I edited out the parts that said he had to recruit the others. Everyone was in the dark this game, not only the WWs. Bison didn't know who his allies were, Akuma didn't know who was Turnable and the Turned didn't know who the other Turneds were.

I don't disagree with making 'major powers' known to everyone, but what would count as a major power? Investigation? Protection? Every single game already has these, so telling rveryone they are present is redundant. I don't think any of the other Supers are imoprtant enough.

And about the Ultras; a lot of them were instakills or antikills and their existence was proven really early by E. Honda, so that was a fact you couldn't ignore.

The knowledge of Akuma's existence was hidden until you killed an Evil, no matter what you say if I had to make this game again it'd be the same. Knowledge of a third threat would've been a reward for actually playing the game and killing evils instead of passively sitting on your ass and waiting for something to happen, just like a lot of other games.

Also I couldn't believe anyone thought Timey was telling the truth. He marketed himself as a useless character, but he's immune to being killed and to being Turned. No way powers like those are useless. And then there's the fact that he was the only person who's allegiance wasn't immediately obvious after being investigated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just naturally charismatic. *poses*

Also, planning for my game went a lot faster than I expected, so I'll get the game thread up by tomorrow night when I get my hands on an actual computer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No worries. I just won't play any more Mafia games. Sorry for ruining it for you all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Awww noooooooooo don't just give up

We need all the players we can get!

You just have to keep your cards closer to your chest instead of announcing all your secrets to everyone. This isn't a shounen manga where you have to declare everything you do INCREDIBLY LOUDLY!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I didn't think it was too huge a deal for Alisyn to announce that to anyone, especially when it wasn't stated in the assimilation that you weren't allowed to do that. I remember innn.. the Sith game? When we all really started to reveal our roles, and the game basically became a process of elimination (I remember Valentine made up a farmer role or something). Anyways, some people felt that that wasn't a good way to play the game, but honestly that game was probably the most fun (for me, at least). I just feel like the mafia games are very "anything goes," unless explicitly stated otherwise (such as, the introduction of "reading" someone, to avoid everyone laying down the facts from the very start). She wasn't told she couldn't reveal that she was evil, and even if she DID reveal that she was evil, there was no reason to take everything she was saying as fact. For all we knew, we could have been very close to taking Akuma out, and it was a last ditch effort (riddled with lies) to get us off his trail. In this case, that wasn't what her admission was, but we didn't know that. I do feel like being upset, and even toying with the idea of kicking her out of the game, is kind of ridiculous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've PMed Alisyn about the matter and we'll settle it from there. What I said we're my personal thoughts on the matter, and had nothing to do with her breaking the rules of the game. I'm not sure if you'd feel the same way if I somehow got to know your Protection ability on the first few turns and announced it to all the villains without your knowledge or consent, Nikkia, but I'd think your natural first reaction wouldn't have been a positive one.

ANYWAY I have nothing against Alisyn and we shall work out the details through PM. So rest easy everyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think your example really applies. If you somehow knew about my protection ability, maybe, but she didn't say who Akuma was. She just gave us a few more "facts" about assimilation. Personally, I think it would be interesting if assimilation was a bit more of a gamble anyways. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not gonna defend myself because I have my points and you have your points and we're gonna spiral into a long debate and everyone will be unhappy which would be bad. Not to mention it would defeat the purpose of my feedback in the first place.

But anyway, I'm not mad with Alisyn now. It was a very situational thing that if you saw my exact circumstances in the game you might understand. This situation doesn't need to escalate further, so I'll handle it by PM from here.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 3 Guests (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online