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TriOctium

Swarm Mystery II: The Reckoning [DISCUSSION]

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After the whole Dan Hibiki thing, I think we're now suspicious of anyone with strange useless traits. The Broken Armor and Weapon traits would probably have tipped someone off that something wasn't right.

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1) The 5 players were not flat-out Immune, they would have been Assimilated through Alisyn's revival. If you had attempted to Assimilate Noia you would have killed her instead, which is in fact a major bonus to the Swarm because she knows who is immune (and used that information to guess who you were, later on).  The Resistant players were placed to hamper you, yes, but their Assimilated skills were meant to be a huge buff. In addition, you were one of them, which took one of the Resistant players out immediately. And finally, the last one isn't an undetectable spy. Ice could not send any messages to you or your Assimilated players if she didn't know who you were, and this information would not have been made readily available to her. Even if she knew, she could not utilize the Swarm Message, which means her 'spy' status could easily have been detected by asking her to send a message to two players at once (another Assimilated + Swarm Host).

 

Besides, every Assimilation attempt you made succeeded. I don't see why you're complaining. :P

Those counter-measures requires the Host to take some very specific steps. There was completely no guarantee the Host would attempt to Assimilate the player with Revival first. He could just as easily have tried to Assimilate any one of the 7 others, which would have been varying levels of disastrous. He could have failed the Assimilation twice in a row. The fact that I was completely lucky has nothing to do with game design!

 

And your detection for Ice requires the Host to suspect in the first place that his Assimilated technique has a rather specific loophole, for which there was absolutely no clue that that was the case. 

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Something Eth and I discussed. Broken Armor/Gun alone isn't enough to be certain. You'd have to see the third trait to figure out whether there was something that made having such a disadvantage reasonable. Kyo's build was obviously too weak, but we only found that out after we lynched him the first time.

 

Kyo's faking-death only reveals him if we kill him. Which nobody was inclined to do until Eth passed on the Zeta message for me to post--they were after me and Sean.

Activation of their barriers only takes place if they're under suspicion/attack and going to be killed. Again, depends on them being suspicious in the first place. If DG hadn't shown up and started to participate, he probably wouldn't have been investigated at all.

 

 

And yeah, agree with Eth's assessment above. Host was shafted really bad. Just luck that he picked me--and I wasn't expecting to ever be picked after the Street Fighter fiasco. And revive only works once.

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@Eth: Correct. If the Swarm Host failed to Assimilate someone, it would have been bad for him. Isn't that the key idea of the immune players? And you're looking only at one side of things. Don't forget how powerful the remaining Assimilate-able players are. Alisyn can keep you alive for 1 Turn AND can revive someone into being your ally. Wstfgl could potentially have 5 health and deal 6 damage in a single turn. Both Sanzi and bon00b have instant-kill abilities, and Shadow can nullify a win condition by himself. It's not being fair to me if you only look at what happens if you just happened to fail repeatedly.

Let me make a recount: There are 5 immune players (out of which 2 were Zeta, so they weren't even on the Soldier's side). 1 player was a spy, so that brings it up to 6. There are 4 vulnerable players, and 1 player that changes your Assimilation into a Murder (which is an equivalent Night Action, so you don't lose out on turns). Out of the 4 vulnerable players, 3 have insta-kill abilities and 1 can revive an Immune player and turn them into an Assimilated.

Is it still not fair for the Host? The Host in this game was meant to kill a lot more, rather than just Assimilate everyone like the last game. The focus was different.

@Ali: Correct. The Zeta were meant to be nearly undetectable if they didn't use any of their actions. But think about it again: if they didn't use their actions, they'd be ordinary players. Worse than ordinary players, in fact, since Soldiers still have access to their traits. If that happened, all the fancy Zeta tricks they had up their sleeves wouldn't matter, because they're not using it.

The idea is that they had to make a trade-off. Either use their abilities to gain an advantage (but reveal their presence), or stay hidden (and undetected).

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Okay so. I could've easily won if this wasn't stopped immediately. I simply change Wst's shooting to someone else with my mind control, use my Gunthrax to be immune to voting for the round, off someone with my warpblades during the day and then night. I feel the gun was jumped way too early on me.

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Your mind control is one use, DG. You used it up earlier on Sanzi so you couldn't have avoided dying by Wst's double tap. Sorry!

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No, I used the Soldier version of it. If I revealed myself to be a Zeta I would've had use of it in my Zeta traits. Or is that just incorrect?

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You had Commanding Shout as a Soldier trait, but Soldier traits were never accessible to the Zeta in the first place. They're only there to use as a cover for your human disguise. To have use of two sets of Traits (both Human and Zeta) would really be broken.

It was actually stated here, in my role PM to you:

Human scanners will also only reveal your Soldier Traits, whereas your true traits are your Zeta Traits.

If you had truly used the real Commanding Shout, in fact, you wouldn't have been able to command Sanzi because he's higher-ranked than you. At the same time, you'd really have the Broken Weapon trait, which means you can't attack (which was not the case).

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Well I guess I just had a complete lack of understanding of this game from the get-go. And I was fucked from the start. Super.

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Zetas were too strong and yet soldiers won. Sounds like envy to me.

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In any case, everyone, I have always been trying out new concepts and ideas with my games, so I'm not surprised that a lot of issues are surfacing. I will take all of your feedback into consideration for the next game (such as clarifying the skill descriptions better and giving the Host more options).

Unless of course you guys unanimously decide that my games are horrible and I should quit hosting them.

I hate you guys.

(no I'm joking)

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I appreciate the time and effort you put into this, Time. xD

 

But I think your games tend a little to the convoluted side which ends up with the situation Sol summed up, where we have no clue whether our actions actually work and any progress is being made. We should NOT be able to get out of lynching without a publicly-announced protective trait keeping someone alive (as mine did when used on Sean, and as Kyo's zeta-shield did when he activated it, though those were admittedly used for shooting--but mine could have been used for lynching). We should not have to question whether someone announced as dead is dead or faking. Yes, I guessed it, but that shouldn't have been something we had to do.

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After seeing how this game played out, I agree. The next game will not have any unannounced death prevention skills. And thanks, Ali. :)

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Yeah. Don't mind my tone too much? People have commented that I'm rude/abrasive/insulting, but that's not my intention. You'd know if it was. I'm not subtle.

Just trying to give some constructive criticism that probably is coming across as criticism. >.<

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Nah, the chance of Assimilation failing is okay; if the Host knew about it, he could at least try to cope with it. I was just exasperated by the other stuff that I had no way of anticipating and were game-breaking on their own.

 

It's strange that the Host is meant to Murder more though. Unlike in the vanilla Mafia games where there're more than one villain and a maximum of perhaps 2 detectives, in the Swarm Mystery potentially everyone can scan for the Swarm Host after three Nights. If the Swarm Host had been mowing down people every night, the pool of people to fish the Host out from would have been smaller indeed (not forgetting that it turns out there's someone with a list that narrows it down further). By that point, it would have been a 1v9 situation. Quite unpalatable.

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The game was, I think, a little too complex; too many things pulling at one another, too many contradictions of what we're told can happen versus what actually can happen, and a whole lot of curveballs being thrown in all the time. I'm not saying it has to be simple... but contradictions are really bad. Like I said, if it comes to the point that I have to ask if it's possible to lynch someone, something is wrong.

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